Low Eco and Fire Canyon Skip: Difference between pages

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'''Low eco''' is a speedrun category in [[Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy]] that restricts the player to using the lowest possible amount of eco needed to completed the game.  
[[File:Fire Canyon Skip.gif|thumb|Infinite bounces being performed during Fire Canyon Skip]]
'''Fire Canyon Skip''', or '''FCS''' for short, is a skip in [[Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy]] that bypasses the 20 power cell requirement needed to enter the second hub area (Rock Village). There is a safeguard in place that bounces Jak back to his last known grounded position if he tries stepping on the fiery canyon terrain. By using [[ground cancel jumps]], Jak is able to approach the canyon terrain without the game updating his grounded position. By Jak never having his grounded position updated, the game never enables the safeguard. Jak is then able to jump onto the canyon surface and initiate an [[infinite bounce]]. Although damage is dealt during the infinite bouncing, Jak's death sequence will not initiate unless he is in a grounded state.


The Low Eco category is known for its utilization of difficult and unorthodox strategies and techniques that aren't found in any other category. It scrutinizes the runner's true knowledge of the game and puts their abilities to the test.
During the course of the infinite bounce, the game is trying to find a grounded surface to bounce Jak to. If Jak gets too close to any object or surface that he is able to stand on, the game will take over and magnetize Jak's bounces towards that surface. There are four areas that regularly trigger this magnetization effect and are commonly called "the four horsemen" in reference to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.


== Rules ==
==Technical==


The [https://www.speedrun.com/jak1ext?h=Low_Eco-Lowest&rules=category&x=jdzr18r2-38dmz3z8.z19nmr8q currently listed rules] for Low Eco are as follows:
The code snippet below is what checks for Jak's last known grounded position.
<blockquote>
''Beat the game as fast as possible while collecting as few eco pickups as possible.''


''Currently, the only eco required to beat the game are the 8 on final boss (3 blue for launchers and 5 yellow. Green eco on the second phase must be avoided).''
    (let ((s4-0 (find-ground-point (-> arg0 control) (new 'stack-no-clear 'vector) 8192.0 40960.0)))
   
    (set! s4-0 (cond
                  (s4-0 ;; if we found it, use that
                    s4-0
                    )
                  (else
                    ;; failed to find it. Use the last known safe ground point instaed.
                    (-> arg0 control last-known-safe-ground)
                    )
                  )


''If eco is accidentally collected, you may load a save file to a previous state in the game, or immediately die to return to a previous checkpoint. Otherwise, you must reset.''
==The Four Horsemen==


''No restrictions with the exception of Lava Tube Skip, which is banned.''
===First Crate===
</blockquote>
[[Lava Tube Skip]] is banned in Low Eco. If it wasn't, Low Eco would be a slower and more boring version of [[Any%]]. The point of the category is to see how a runner manages to complete various tasks without the use of eco.


Some people question why [[Fire Canyon Skip]] isn't banned in Low Eco. With Lava Tube Skip banned, the runner needs to meet the 72 power cell requirement in Lava Tube. To achieve this, they will have to collect some power cells in Hub 1 levels. It would not make sense, and would be much slower, to skip Hub 1 with Fire Canyon Skip only to have to return to collect power cells.
The first obstacle, or the first horseman, of Fire Canyon Skip is the first bridge with an orb crate. Often referred to as "first crate", the angles needed to bounce around the crate are so tight that most attempts end here. There is a setup that can assist with bouncing around the crate, but even then the success rate is still extremely low.


== Demonstration Video ==
===Second Crate===
<youtube>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EHTr2gkZEA</youtube>


== Notable Strategies & Techniques ==
The second obstacle, or the second horseman, is the second bridge with an orb crate. Often referred to as "second crate", this obstacle is much more forgiving since this bridge is much wider than the first. There is a setup that involves precise camera rotation and allows for a very consistent completion rate.
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQjX9KTZGkQ Geyser Rock - Open The Precursor Door, No Eco]
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1ObwbzZRiI Forbidden Jungle - Secret Door Cell, No Eco]
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxmqEi56NKI Forbidden Jungle - Temple Scoutfly, No Eco]
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGDywyNopo4 Sentinel Beach - Unblock The Eco Harvester, No Eco]
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU2ETsBHa30 Lost Precursor City - Button Clip / SixHop]
* [https://youtu.be/xz4Th7xRXgQ?si=gkU__7r8y3O3X_PT&t=2342 Lost Precursor City - First Slide on Foot]
* [https://youtu.be/xz4Th7xRXgQ?si=5hajhbDehemhwthl&t=2432 Lost Precursor City - Exiting LPC Up the Slide]
* [https://youtu.be/5EHTr2gkZEA?si=W9WegDgPySdKOQVI&t=2203 Boggy Swamp - Ambush, No Eco]
* [https://youtu.be/2fQvxCuy4L8?si=fsIzaL-Bx8XZlfj4&t=49 Boggy Swamp - Flut Flut Out of Bounds #1]
* [https://youtu.be/xz4Th7xRXgQ?si=tZ6Rbc34QwJfzR35&t=2714 Boggy Swamp - Flut Flut Out of Bounds #2]
* [https://youtu.be/5EHTr2gkZEA?si=Yn-v2k-1fDOAAniu&t=2429 Boggy Swamp - Flut Flut Out of Bounds #3]
* [https://youtu.be/WFlTSHjxZoA?si=zhyM5uLrtuXmnyi0&t=73 Mountain Pass - Avoiding Eco Using the Zoomer]
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J76p2WUQpM0 Snowy Mountain - Stop The 3 Lurker Glacier Troops, No Eco]
* [https://youtu.be/xz4Th7xRXgQ?si=Hgl4XkEcf8w97yWd&t=3902 Volcanic Crater - Find the Hidden Power Cell, No Eco]
* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkrldCVAhFg Lava Tube - Oranges Skip]
* [https://youtu.be/xz4Th7xRXgQ?si=Ty48MDamoR-XFtV3&t=4410 Gol and Maia's Citadel - Skip the Blue Eco Platform at Final Boss]
* [https://youtu.be/xz4Th7xRXgQ?si=YeyTeASzA5yLy03T&t=4431 Gol and Maia's Citadel - Trigger Final Boss Handicap]


== Category Variants ==
===Ramp===
=== True Low Eco ===
The current rules for Low Eco say that the player is allowed to collect 8 necessary pieces of eco during the final boss fight. 5 yellow eco pieces to deal damage to the boss and 3 blue eco pieces to use the jump pad.


This, however, is not the true minimum amount of eco required to complete the game. By performing rocket uppercuts during the dark eco bomb segments, it is possible for Jak to get high enough so that when the bomb explodes, the fight does not end. This removes the requirement of the 3 blue eco pieces and brings the true required eco count down to 5.  
The third obstacle, or the third horseman, is the third ramp Jak encounters in the the canyon. Often referred to as just "ramp", this obstacle is positioned much closer to the right canyon wall and the left path around the ramp is blocked by dark eco crates which can not be bypassed. There is a setup for riding the wall around the ramp, but it requires two very precise jumps.


<youtube>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqyxiuEm9Ic</youtube>
===Dark Eco Crates===


=== Low Eco Max% ===
This final obstacle, or the fourth horsemen, is a set of two dark eco crate bundles. The game considers the top of dark eco crates to be a viable area to trigger Jak's death animation, so infinite bounces will be magnetized towards dark eco crate if Jak gets too close. Jak's death sequence will trigger if he lands on top of the crates, but not if he slams into the sides of them. With good timing and spacing, Jak can be magnetized towards the dark eco crates as he begins a bounce. This will bounce Jak into the side of the crates instead of landing him on top of the crates like the game wants to happen.
Max% refers to completing as much of the game as possible while still adhering to the original category rules. In this case, Low Eco Max% refers to completing as much of the game while still adhering to the Low Eco leaderboard rules. Below is a chart of all the missions and tasks in Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy that can be completed without the use of eco.


{| class="wikitable" style="margin:left"
==Discovery==
|+ Low Eco Max% Chart
 
|-
All versions of Fire Canyon Skip (FCS) were first theorized and performed by Bobbykaze. The first instance of Fire Canyon Skip being performed in a speedrun was by LouiGi on January 7, 2019.
!  Location !! Mission !! Requires Eco !! Purchased
 
|-
===Community Reaction to LouiGi's Speedrun===
| style="background: #dcffb8;" | Geyser Rock || Find the Cell on the Path || No || No
<youtube>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NjdrDNQJ0g</youtube>
|-
 
| style="background: #dcffb8;" | Geyser Rock  || Open the Precursor Door || No|| No
===First RTA Completion===
|-
<youtube>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzn4mxs6vhU</youtube>
| style="background: #dcffb8;" | Geyser Rock  || Climb up the Cliff || No || No
 
|-
==Skip Versions==
| style="background: #dcffb8;" | Geyser Rock  || Free 7 Scout Flies || No || No
 
|-
===FCS v1.0===
| style="background: #fce89d;" | Sandover Village || Bring 90 Orbs to the Mayor || No || Yes
 
|-
The first version of Fire Canyon Skip took an approach similar to [[Lava Tube Skip]] v2.0, making use of an [[idle deload]] and [[checkpoint bypass]]. The skip would start with Jak waiting 30 seconds to perform his idle animation while in Fire Canyon. This would change Jak's stored level to Fire Canyon. Once Fire Canyon has been stored, Jak climbs over the left canyon wall to get out of bounds and maneuvers back to the Sandover Village checkpoint. Once Sandover Village becomes Jak's active level, a precise [[extended uppercut]] is used to perform a checkpoint bypass, allowing Jak to enter Fire Canyon while Sandover Village is still the active level (Sandover Village music will play while in Fire Canyon). After the bypass, Jak needs to perform an insane amount of blind ledge grabs and make his way deep enough into the canyon so that he is closer to the end of Fire Canyon than he is to the start. Once an idle deload is performed, the game will change Jak's stored level to his active level (Fire Canyon music will begin to play) and will set his checkpoint to the nearest one. In this case, the nearest checkpoint is at the end of Fire Canyon. Jak then dies and respawns at the end of Fire Canyon.
| style="background: #fce89d;" | Sandover Village || Bring 90 Orbs to Your Uncle || No|| Yes
 
|-
==FAQ==
| style="background: #fce89d;" | Sandover Village || Herd the Yakows into the Pen || No || No
 
|-
'''Why do you start FCS with double jumping three times after loading?'''
| style="background: #fce89d;" | Sandover Village || Bring 120 Orbs to the Oracle || No || Yes
 
|-
By performing ground cancel jumps, Jak is able to bypass the area that would tell the game to bounce Jak back to solid ground.
| style="background: #fce89d;" | Sandover Village || Bring 120 Orbs to the Oracle || No || Yes
 
|-
'''Are there going to be any new categories because of FCS?'''
| style="background: #fce89d;" | Sandover Village || Free 7 Scout Flies || No || No
 
|-
* The Any% category that preceded FCS has been added to the leaderboards as No FCS.
| style="background: #bbfc9d;" | Forbidden Jungle || Connect the Eco Beams || No || Yes
 
|-
'''Who discovered FCS?'''
| style="background: #bbfc9d;" | Forbidden Jungle || Get to the Top of the Temple || style="background: red; color:white;" | Yes || No
 
|-
* Bobbykaze, with help from Kuitar and LouiGi.
| style="background: #bbfc9d;" | Forbidden Jungle || Find the Blue Vent Switch || No || No
 
|-
'''What is the best time someone can theoretically get in Any% with FCS?'''
| style="background: #bbfc9d;" | Forbidden Jungle || Defeat the Dark Eco Plant || No || No
 
|-
* The theorized best possible time for Any% is 15:3X.
| style="background: #bbfc9d;" | Forbidden Jungle || Catch 200 Pounds of Fish || No || No
 
|-
'''Why do runners turn Jak backwards for FCS?'''
| style="background: #bbfc9d;" | Forbidden Jungle || Follow the Canyon to the Sea || No || No
 
|-
* Jak moves slightly faster when he is bouncing backwards.
| style="background: #bbfc9d;" | Forbidden Jungle || Open the Locked Temple Door || No || No
 
|-
'''Why does the runner sometimes stop to take damage on a lurker?'''
| style="background: #cfffe0;" | Sentinel Beach || Unblock the Eco Harvesters || No || No
 
|-
* If you get bounced over the first orb crate (sometimes referred to as Kuitar Bounce) rather than bouncing around it, the bounce will change Jak's position to facing forward. Taking damage on the lurker allows the runner to change Jak's position back to backwards so they can go faster. Also, the current setups rely on Jak facing backwards.
| style="background: #cfffe0;" | Sentinel Beach || Push the Flut Flut Egg Off the Cliff || No || No
 
|-
'''I'm a new runner and I can't get Jak to start bouncing on the lava, any tips?'''
| style="background: #cfffe0;" | Sentinel Beach || Get the Power Cell From the Pelican || No || No
 
|-
* Any% is not a good category to start with. It's recommended that you start with No LTS, No FCS, or 100%. Fire Canyon Skip is in its early stages and still needs much work before it becomes beginner friendly.
| style="background: #cfffe0;" | Sentinel Beach || Chase the Seagulls || No || No
|-
| style="background: #cfffe0;" | Sentinel Beach || Launch up to the Tower || No || No
|-
| style="background: #cfffe0;" | Sentinel Beach || Explore the Beach || No || No
|-
| style="background: #cfffe0;" | Sentinel Beach || Climb the Sentinel || No || No
|-
| style="background: #cfffe0;" | Sentinel Beach || Free 7 Scout Flies || No || No
|-
| style="background: #a8b3af;" | Misty Island || Catch the Sculptor's Muse || No || No
|-
| style="background: #a8b3af;" | Misty Island || Climb the Lurker Ship || No || No
|-
| style="background: #a8b3af;" | Misty Island || Stop the Cannon || No || No
|-
| style="background: #a8b3af;" | Misty Island || Return to the Dark Eco Pool || No || No
|-
| style="background: #a8b3af;" | Misty Island || Destroy the Balloon Lurkers || No || No
|-
| style="background: #a8b3af;" | Misty Island || Use the Zoomer to Reach the Power Cell || No || No
|-
| style="background: #a8b3af;" | Misty Island || Use Blue Eco to Reach the Power Cell || No || No
|-
| style="background: #a8b3af;" | Misty Island || Free 7 Scout Flies || No || No
|-
| style="background: #ffbc7d;" | Fire Canyon || Reach the End of the Fire Canyon || No || No
|-
| style="background: #ffbc7d;" | Fire Canyon || Free 7 Scout Flies || No || No
|}


== Other Notes ==
== Other Notes ==
[[File:Fire Canyon Skip v2 ImRubic Discord Reaction.PNG|thumb|Discord reactions to ImRubic streaming the discovery of zoom deload. Bobbykaze then uploads a video of zoom deload being used to perform FCS v2.]]
Piggleberry first found the [https://www.twitch.tv/videos/43702248 infinite bouncing] in Fire Canyon, but starting from the end of the level. At the time this was not useful. (June 22, 2015)
Kuitar put forward the idea of using Idle Deload for Fire Canyon Skip, and then Bobby put together the rest of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_udU2V6yeU Fire Canyon Skip v1], making use of an out of bounds at the start of the level found by headstrong.
ImRubic discovered "zoom deloads" (Idle Deload with a zoom), and used it to enter Fire Canyon from Sentinel Beach and start infinite bouncing, something not previously possible with regular deloads. Bobby then put together the rest of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjUv1-4HLLI Fire Canyon Skip v2].
Kuitar showed that you could use ground cancel jumps (3-frame jumps) to start infinite bouncing from the start of Fire Canyon, and then Bobby put together the rest of Fire Canyon Skip v2.5.
Several runners would later contribute with setups and strategies for making the skip RTA viable, especially LouiGi who also became the first runner to complete the skip RTA, followed by the first runner to get a WR with the skip (22m51s), achieved while members of the community watched on live from AGDQ 2019."
{{skips}}

Revision as of 06:11, 19 February 2024

Infinite bounces being performed during Fire Canyon Skip

Fire Canyon Skip, or FCS for short, is a skip in Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy that bypasses the 20 power cell requirement needed to enter the second hub area (Rock Village). There is a safeguard in place that bounces Jak back to his last known grounded position if he tries stepping on the fiery canyon terrain. By using ground cancel jumps, Jak is able to approach the canyon terrain without the game updating his grounded position. By Jak never having his grounded position updated, the game never enables the safeguard. Jak is then able to jump onto the canyon surface and initiate an infinite bounce. Although damage is dealt during the infinite bouncing, Jak's death sequence will not initiate unless he is in a grounded state.

During the course of the infinite bounce, the game is trying to find a grounded surface to bounce Jak to. If Jak gets too close to any object or surface that he is able to stand on, the game will take over and magnetize Jak's bounces towards that surface. There are four areas that regularly trigger this magnetization effect and are commonly called "the four horsemen" in reference to the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse.

Technical

The code snippet below is what checks for Jak's last known grounded position.

    (let ((s4-0 (find-ground-point (-> arg0 control) (new 'stack-no-clear 'vector) 8192.0 40960.0)))
    
    (set! s4-0 (cond
                 (s4-0 ;; if we found it, use that
                   s4-0
                   )
                 (else
                   ;; failed to find it. Use the last known safe ground point instaed.
                   (-> arg0 control last-known-safe-ground)
                   )
                 )

The Four Horsemen

First Crate

The first obstacle, or the first horseman, of Fire Canyon Skip is the first bridge with an orb crate. Often referred to as "first crate", the angles needed to bounce around the crate are so tight that most attempts end here. There is a setup that can assist with bouncing around the crate, but even then the success rate is still extremely low.

Second Crate

The second obstacle, or the second horseman, is the second bridge with an orb crate. Often referred to as "second crate", this obstacle is much more forgiving since this bridge is much wider than the first. There is a setup that involves precise camera rotation and allows for a very consistent completion rate.

Ramp

The third obstacle, or the third horseman, is the third ramp Jak encounters in the the canyon. Often referred to as just "ramp", this obstacle is positioned much closer to the right canyon wall and the left path around the ramp is blocked by dark eco crates which can not be bypassed. There is a setup for riding the wall around the ramp, but it requires two very precise jumps.

Dark Eco Crates

This final obstacle, or the fourth horsemen, is a set of two dark eco crate bundles. The game considers the top of dark eco crates to be a viable area to trigger Jak's death animation, so infinite bounces will be magnetized towards dark eco crate if Jak gets too close. Jak's death sequence will trigger if he lands on top of the crates, but not if he slams into the sides of them. With good timing and spacing, Jak can be magnetized towards the dark eco crates as he begins a bounce. This will bounce Jak into the side of the crates instead of landing him on top of the crates like the game wants to happen.

Discovery

All versions of Fire Canyon Skip (FCS) were first theorized and performed by Bobbykaze. The first instance of Fire Canyon Skip being performed in a speedrun was by LouiGi on January 7, 2019.

Community Reaction to LouiGi's Speedrun

First RTA Completion

Skip Versions

FCS v1.0

The first version of Fire Canyon Skip took an approach similar to Lava Tube Skip v2.0, making use of an idle deload and checkpoint bypass. The skip would start with Jak waiting 30 seconds to perform his idle animation while in Fire Canyon. This would change Jak's stored level to Fire Canyon. Once Fire Canyon has been stored, Jak climbs over the left canyon wall to get out of bounds and maneuvers back to the Sandover Village checkpoint. Once Sandover Village becomes Jak's active level, a precise extended uppercut is used to perform a checkpoint bypass, allowing Jak to enter Fire Canyon while Sandover Village is still the active level (Sandover Village music will play while in Fire Canyon). After the bypass, Jak needs to perform an insane amount of blind ledge grabs and make his way deep enough into the canyon so that he is closer to the end of Fire Canyon than he is to the start. Once an idle deload is performed, the game will change Jak's stored level to his active level (Fire Canyon music will begin to play) and will set his checkpoint to the nearest one. In this case, the nearest checkpoint is at the end of Fire Canyon. Jak then dies and respawns at the end of Fire Canyon.

FAQ

Why do you start FCS with double jumping three times after loading?

By performing ground cancel jumps, Jak is able to bypass the area that would tell the game to bounce Jak back to solid ground.

Are there going to be any new categories because of FCS?

  • The Any% category that preceded FCS has been added to the leaderboards as No FCS.

Who discovered FCS?

  • Bobbykaze, with help from Kuitar and LouiGi.

What is the best time someone can theoretically get in Any% with FCS?

  • The theorized best possible time for Any% is 15:3X.

Why do runners turn Jak backwards for FCS?

  • Jak moves slightly faster when he is bouncing backwards.

Why does the runner sometimes stop to take damage on a lurker?

  • If you get bounced over the first orb crate (sometimes referred to as Kuitar Bounce) rather than bouncing around it, the bounce will change Jak's position to facing forward. Taking damage on the lurker allows the runner to change Jak's position back to backwards so they can go faster. Also, the current setups rely on Jak facing backwards.

I'm a new runner and I can't get Jak to start bouncing on the lava, any tips?

  • Any% is not a good category to start with. It's recommended that you start with No LTS, No FCS, or 100%. Fire Canyon Skip is in its early stages and still needs much work before it becomes beginner friendly.

Other Notes

Discord reactions to ImRubic streaming the discovery of zoom deload. Bobbykaze then uploads a video of zoom deload being used to perform FCS v2.

Piggleberry first found the infinite bouncing in Fire Canyon, but starting from the end of the level. At the time this was not useful. (June 22, 2015)

Kuitar put forward the idea of using Idle Deload for Fire Canyon Skip, and then Bobby put together the rest of Fire Canyon Skip v1, making use of an out of bounds at the start of the level found by headstrong.

ImRubic discovered "zoom deloads" (Idle Deload with a zoom), and used it to enter Fire Canyon from Sentinel Beach and start infinite bouncing, something not previously possible with regular deloads. Bobby then put together the rest of Fire Canyon Skip v2.

Kuitar showed that you could use ground cancel jumps (3-frame jumps) to start infinite bouncing from the start of Fire Canyon, and then Bobby put together the rest of Fire Canyon Skip v2.5.

Several runners would later contribute with setups and strategies for making the skip RTA viable, especially LouiGi who also became the first runner to complete the skip RTA, followed by the first runner to get a WR with the skip (22m51s), achieved while members of the community watched on live from AGDQ 2019."


Skips in the Jak and Daxter series
Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy Sequence Breaking Skips Fire Canyon SkipBoulder SkipLava Tube SkipCitadel Skip
Cutscene Skips Blue Sage Cutscene SkipGondola SkipPower Cell Cutscene SkipsRed Sage Cutscene SkipKeira Cutscene Skip
Other Skips Bite SkipCave HopsCitadel HopsFortress SkipGondola SkipKlaww SkipLPC Elevator SkipOranges SkipPiggyback SkipPuzzle SkipRock HopsTower ClimbTree HopsYellow Vent Skip
Jak II Sequence Breaking Skips Mar's Tomb SkipRobot SkipPercent Warp
Other Skips Checkpoint WarpKrew SkipLap SkipShaft SkipUnderport Skip
Jak 3 Sequence Breaking Skips BTR SkipKleiver SkipCave SkipVolcano SkipAshelin SkipTemple SkipSewers SkipHaven Skip
Other Skips placeholder1 • placeholder2
Jak X Track Skips Badland SanctuaryBeachfront DriveCanyon RunCity OutskirtsDethdromeEastern TourForbidden JungleFrozen SpeedwayGlacier AlleyHaven CityIcebound CitadelKras CityLoading DocksMountaintop HighweayNorther TourPrecursor TempleSeaport StripSewer RacewaySouthern TourSpargus CityTimberline TrackWaterfront LoopWaterworks CircuitWestern Tour
Daxter Sequence Breaking Skips Construction Site 1 SkipConstruction Site 2 SkipPrison Door SkipStrip Mine 2 SkipTanker Skip
Other Skips placeholder1 • placeholder2
Jak and Daxter: The Lost Frontier Sequence Breaking Skips placeholder1 • placeholder2
Other Skips placeholder1 • placeholder2